The Millibeast didn’t reply to my email the other day so I sent him another one this evening:
Dear Millibeast,
I wrote to you a few days ago as you can see below but I haven’t received a reply as yet. Perhaps your secretaries didn’t forward the email on or you’ve been too busy.
I’m sure I don’t need to tell you what’s happening in Gaza at the moment although you may not have seen the latest fatality figures. According to the paper I read tonight the death toll is somewhere in the region of 13 of Gods Chosen People (3 of which self-defenced themselves loading one of their Weapons of Mass Self-Defence) compared to 870 Arabs.
The other day, some of Gods Chosen Soldiers rounded up some civilian terrorists and put them in a house for their own safety and then the next day they self-defenced the house, killing quite a few of the civilian terrorists, three of which were children. After this the international community, through the UN, expressed its will by way of another UN resolution calling on Israel to stop self-defencing Gaza. Israel has ignored the will of the international community again, when will you be taking the same hard stance that the British and American governments did with Iraq for the same offence?
Vive La Revolution!
Wonko
I reckon trying to get a reply from government ministers should be made an Olympic sport, it’d be a perfect addition to the list of Olympic sports we’re no good at.
Technorati Tags: Israel, Gaza, Palestine, Terrorism, David Millibeast
Here is an interesting quote from ‘Daddy’ Miliband, a nasty far left wing Marxist Extremist England hater, but who couldnt wait to live there!.
You can be sure his dangerously extremist and racist views have been passed down to his two sons, its the likes of these who are running England, no wonder the country is in the state its in.
———-
Ralph Miliband, Diary entry (1940)
The Englishman is a rabid nationalist. They are perhaps the most nationalist people in the world … When you hear the English talk of this war you sometimes almost want them to lose it to show them how things are. They have the greatest contempt for the continent in general and for the French in particular. They didn’t like the French before the defeat: (1) because they don’t have order, (2) because they talk too much, (3) because they change their ministers every month, etc. Since the defeat, they have the greatest contempt for the French Army … England first. This slogan is taken for granted by the English people as a whole. To lose their empire would be the worst possible humiliation.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/HISmiliband.htm
http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/3493/milibandlikefatherlikesls2.jpg
http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/7761/broonbandrx2.jpg
Well, if you’ve got to come down on a side in this situation, I am sure glad you chose those people who have been attempting to kill innocent civilians rather than the ones who, having been prodded and poked, have responded in the only way that the victims (as you describe them) seem to understand.
Violence won’t solve this situation, but this particular crisis was ‘started’ by Hamas either by firing the rockets or allowing the rockets to be fired.
I’m coming down on the side of the Palestinians, they’re the victims in all this. They had their country partitioned against their will, they had their country invaded and occupied, they’ve had tens of thousands of civilians killed by their occupier, they have all their infrastructure repeatedly destroyed so they can never get themselves out of abject poverty, they can’t have the government they voted for because they’re not acceptable to the occupying power and when the occupying power invades and kills hundreds of civilians on a false pretext (YouTube clip of Israeli Prime Minister admitting Israel broke the ceasefire) the world stands by and allows them to be massacred.
“They had their country partitioned against their will…”
Wonko, I hesitate to even ask you this again, I asked this when we first debated this question. Show me a map with a country called “Palestine” on it. I don’t think this question even registers in your mind when I ask it.
Which country was partitioned? What was it called?
Here is some history for you. (emphasis mine throughout).
“For more than 1,600 years, Jews formed the main settled population. Although often conquered – by Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Egyptians and Romans (Latin: Palestina-the first time the name “Palestine” is used, Jews remained until the Roman conquest the predominant people of the land, with long periods of complete independence. During the six centuries that followed the Roman conquest, some Jews remained in Palestine, mostly near Safed, Tiberia, Hebron and Jerusalem.
In 637 AD Jerusalem was conquered by Muslim Arabs. From 637 to 1099 the Arabs sometimes ill-treated and were sometimes tolerant towards their Jewish subjects. From 1099 to 1291 the Christian Crusaders persecuted and slaughtered the Jews of Palestine. The Muslims who ousted the Crusaders in 1291, and ruled until 1516, at times encouraged Jewish settlement, and many Jews came to Palestine to escape from Christian persecution in Europe. After 1517, under the OTTOMAN TURKS the Jews of Europe continued to seek refuge in Palestine from Christian persecution and expulsion and Jerusalem was gradually reinstated as a centre of Jewish learning. By 1880, the Jews formed the majority of the population of Jerusalem.
Between 1880 and 1914 over sixty thousand Jews entered Palestine, mostly from Russia, Galicia, Rumania and Poland. The victims of persecution and discrimination, they sought a new homeland and a new security under TURKISH RULE. Many settled on WASTELAND, SAND-DUNES and MALARIAL MARSH, which they drained, irrigated and farmed.
In 1909 -read it again- 1909, Jews founded TEL AVIV. The Jews PURCHASED their land piecemeal from EUROPEAN, TURKISH and ARAB landlords, mostly at extremely high prices.
On the 5th November 1914 the British declared war on Turkey and during 1915 the first plans were drawn up for the partition of the TURKISH EMPIRE. Largely as a result of Britain’s victories over the Turks in 1917 & 1818, more than 10,000,000 Arabs were liberated from TURKISH rule. THE TOTAL AREA OF ARAB LANDS IN ARABIA WAS 1,184,000 square miles. Palestine, the only portion of the former TURKISH TERRITORY set aside for a Jewish National Home, covered less than 11,000 square miles.”
Now, Wonko, do I need to go on? Tell me, WHERE IS THE “NATION” or “COUNTRY” of Palestine in all of this? What was the “Country” that was later partitioned “against their will?” and which now, as a consequence of Israeli “occupation” justifies Hamas Terror? WHAT COUNTRY IS OCCUPIED?
Map of Palestine drawn up by the British War Office in 1924 and another one from 1918.
A map showing what the Jews originally asked for (most of Palestine) and what the UN said they could have. A German map of Palestine from 1759, another from 1891, another from 1890 and another from 1924.
In 1200BC the Israelites were nomads, there was no Israeli state.
Another mention of Palestine in the 5th century BC.
In the 1st and 2nd centuries AD the Romans merged several provinces and called it Syria-Palestinia because of Jewish rebellions – the ancestors of modern-day Israelis were instrumental in the revival of a Palestinian state in the Roman empire. Ironic.
Is that enough evidence of the existence of a Palestinian state for three and a half thousand years or so? Is that enough maps showing a Palestinian state? Palestine wasn’t part of Turkey as you are trying to suggest, it was part of the Ottoman Empire. It wasn’t part of Turkey any more than India was part of the UK and you know that, you’re just trying to misrepresent facts to suit your irrational justification for supporting Israeli terrorism (remember, “Israel” was a hotbed of terrorism before it unilaterally declared independence) and the destruction of Palestine.
I am sorry Wonko, but you have shown no evidence whatsoever for the existance of a “Palestinian State” during the 20th century, let alone for three and a half thousand years. You confuse the notion of a geographical region with nationhood and statehood. You even acknowledge that in the 5th century, the region was a part of Syria!
You know that I never said that Palestine was part of Turkey – nevertheless, the Ottoman empire was TURKISH! I point this out in an attempt to demonstrate that the “Palestinians” were certainly not a “free” and “Independent” people during the early years of the 20th century when Zionists began to consider a Jewish State.
These facts utterly undermine a number of your stated reasons for supporting the Palestinians which include:
“They had their country partitioned against their will, they had their country invaded and occupied, they’ve had tens of thousands of civilians killed by their occupier…”
There was, and is, no “Country” of Palestine, and there was and is, no such thing as a “Palestinian Nation”. Palestinian Nationalism is a contemporary phenomenon. The likes of Hamas are Jew-hating murderers who seek, not the liberation of Gaza, but the destruction of Israel and Jews as a people. They hate you and I almost as much. Iran sees Hamas as an ally in it’s wider hegemonic struggle with “US Imperialism”. They perceive Israel to be a major out-post of that US hegemonic power. That’s what they mean when they talk about “resistance”.
Now, let me tell you why I support Israel.
1. There is no justification for Anti-Semitism. Like all forms of racism it poisons the soul;
2. The Zionist cause is absolutely morally right and is historically justified;
3. Israel represents freedom and human dignity. She stands as a beacon amidst a morass of confusion;
4. There can be no justification for terrorism;
5. If we lose the moral and political case for Israel then we will one day lose the moral and political justification for our own democratic way of life; in Europe, America and the rest of the world.
None of this is to say that I support Israel “right or wrong”. Of her, like my own government, we should expect a higher standard. I didn’t support the withdrawal from Gaza and the West Bank and Israel has paid a heavy price ever since. However, I accept that Palestinian Nationalism now exists and we must live with its consequences. To that end, I would support the creation of a Palestinian State.
But for that to be acomplished, the terrorists of Hamas and Islamic Jihad have to be deafeated whilst the Iranian attempts at hegemonic dominance in the region have to be dealth with.
“Here is some history for you. (emphasis mine throughout).”
Where exactly are you quoting from? I think you’ve got the state of Israel confused with the land of Israel
“I am sorry Wonko, but you have shown no evidence whatsoever for the existance of a “Palestinian State” during the 20th century”
The state of Israel has only been in existance since the 40’s, exactly the same time as the existance as the Gaza strip. It declared itself a state and had to fight to be recognised by other countries, in much the same way Palistine has. It comes from the concept of the Land of Israel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Israel which was mutable and has as much validation as the historical concept of Palistine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine
Actually Palistine is recognised by 96 countries and is given special diplomatic status by another 13 (including the UK).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_the_Palestinian_National_Authority
“1. There is no justification for Anti-Semitism. Like all forms of racism it poisons the soul;”
Agreed, that’s why I’ve got a big problem with the murder of so many innocent Palistinians
“2. The Zionist cause is absolutely morally right and is historically justified;”
Everyone has a right to somewhere to live in peace, even Palistinians
“3. Israel represents freedom and human dignity. She stands as a beacon amidst a morass of confusion;”
Like building walls, indiscriminate bombing and the deliberate targeting of children? I’m all for a strong and peaceful Israel but there are ways and means to achieve your aims which don’t involve murder.
4. There can be no justification for terrorism;
Again no argument there, that’s why I think Israel should stop doing it at once
5. If we lose the moral and political case for Israel then we will one day lose the moral and political justification for our own democratic way of life; in Europe, America and the rest of the world.
???????? What do you mean? The right to bear arms against those who are different?
I am no more agaist the state of Israel than I am the state of Palistine and I have no support for anyone who uses airstrikes or missiles against anyone else, but if someone was shooting at me and they were using a child as a human shield I wouldn’t throw a grenade at them to stop them, I’d try and save the kid.
“if someone was shooting at me and they were using a child as a human shield I wouldn’t throw a grenade at them to stop them, I’d try and save the kid.”
Stan, you’ve hit the nail on the head – why hasn’t it been put like this by TV journalists to the IDF spokespeople?
I came across this thread while trying to get some information on Palistine in order to try to come to some understanding of this whole terrible conflict.
I am an old english git who survived the second world war(just) and am not anti semite,arab or islam generally.
I believe that too much death has been caused over the centuries in the name of one god or another.
What confuses me however is that while the intellectual arguments over what exactly is Palistine are fascinating they do not actually help resolve the problem.
I think it is a mistake to go so far back into history.
Look at the map of europe and say who owns what, if you take historical borders and occupations into account.
It is not necessary or relevant.
The whole problem has to be addressed in todays context.
It will not help by blindly supporting either sides war crimes.
The palistinian people have to exist so to do the Isrealies.
As usual these conflicts are supported and exacerbated by
the influence of greater powers outside the direct conflict who have hidden agenda’s.
One only has to look at the division of the middle east after the war and the creation of Iraq and Iran by Britain and France to see that. (Oil interests again!)
Until there is a real drive by those powers suporting each side and a refusal to provide funds for more war this conflict will never be settled.