Israel claims that it is acting in self-defence by invading Gaza to stop the indiscriminate attacks from Hamas which are targetted at civillian areas. So can someone explain how Israel bombing two UN schools in crowded refugee camps in Gaza – presumably deliberate targets bearing in mind the top-grade weaponry the Americans have given them over the years – is any different or somehow right?
In the 11 days since Israel kicked off, over 600 Palestinians have been killed. During the same period, 3 Israeli civillians and 1 Israeli soldier have been killed by Hamas rockets. In the first couple of days, the UN said that about 25% of Palestinians killed were civilians – who knows what that figure is now if they’re bombing refugee camps.
We’ll never get the truth out of Israel, Palestine, the UK, the US or any of the arab states – they have access to information but they all have their vested interests. Israel has banned reporters from Gaza to try and keep a monopoly on information but the UN and the Red Cross are still there. The UN has condemned Israel’s invasion of Gaza, saying the conditions there are horific. The International Committee of the Red Cross are also very concerned about the humanitarian disaster in Gaza, something Israel denies is a problem.
The director of the UN aid agency, UNRWA, said:
You cannot conduct huge military operations in such densely-populated places without killing hundreds and injuring thousands of civilians
Funnily enough, I said much the same thing over on Iain Dale’s blog but the Israeli terrorist appeasers that prowl the comments on Tory blogs to find people to call racists and anti-semites either didn’t get the point or have such little value for the Palestinian life that they just don’t care.
How different would it be if Palestinians were Jews and Israeli’s were Arabs?
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Stuart, I know we will never agree on this and I hesitate to even point this out to you. But look at the BBC report that you cite. What does it say?
“Israel said its soldiers had come under fire from militants inside the school.”
Now, either that is a lie, or it is the truth. I believe it to be the truth. Therefore, my conclusion is that these Hamas fighters really are the lowest of the low.
Taking cover in a school and firing upon Israeli soldiers? Knowing that the Israelis would strike back and potentially kill innocent children?
Tell me Stuart, because I do want to know, would you open fire from inside a school? Would you fire rockets from within residential areas? Would you vote a terrorist-paramilitary organisation into office? God help us if you would.
‘anti semitic’
I dont think arabs can be ‘anti semitic’ because they are semitic them selves
oki, do we beleive this is really a war between the USA and Iran?
We know the USA supplies all the military needs of Israel and gives it trillions in foreign aid.
We think we know that Iran supplies Hamas, with rockets and stuff.
So surely we should be shouting at the Organ grinders, instead of their poo throwing monkeys?
This is’nt a case of one side being right and the other being wrong, it is not even a case of one side being slightly wrong and the other side being very wrong.
They are both wrong, no question asked, both wrong and we, as their moral superiors, we should be saying to both of them get it sorted, no, we should be forcing them to get it sorted, without us, in the rest of the world, they cant misbehave, so we must accept the responsibility
George, as you are no doubt aware, the BBC edit their articles all the time. When it was first put up there was no comment from the Israeli’s. What had the Israeli’s come under fire from and why were Israeli soldiers in a UN refugee camp?
They came under MOTAR FIRE from Hamas fighters from within one of the schools. Hamas are using children as human shields for heavens sake. This is the very depth of human depravity. The sooner Hamas are defeated, the better.
I’ve no idea if Hamas were firing mortars from the School. All we have is an Israeli statement on that after they had managed to kill dozens of refugees with shell fire.
The Israelis knew where the School was, the UN has passed the GPS co-ordinates of every UN school to the Israelis so they must have known it would be full of refugees from the fighting.
I’m more inclined to the view that the Israelis are as trigger happy as the US and view the Palestinians as less than human. Not that they’re unique in that.
Imagine if the weight and amount of explosives landing on Gaza had been carried into Tel Aviv by suicide bombers and detonated in police stations, schools and synagogues.
The US and the rest of the West would have gone absolutely nuts but all Bush and Brown can do when Palestinians die is mutter about a sustainable ceasefire and all Blair can do is demand that the gates on the ghetto are shut tighter.
The thing I find most reprehensible is the denial, the avoidance of all responsibility by the Israelis for the dead and wounded in Gaza. It’s all Hamas’ fault they intone as they pump tank shells, naval shells, bombs and missiles into Gaza.
“Imagine if the weight and amount of explosives landing on Gaza had been carried into Tel Aviv by suicide bombers and detonated in police stations, schools and synagogues.”
You know, no one wants to see death and carnage. It is a human tragedy. I may say that Hamas have been sending suicide bombers into Israel for years. Fortunately, Israel has managed to keep them out in more recent years. Hamas have thus taken to rocket attacks instead.
Israel has launched a ground-offensive against a terrorist and paramilitary force within one of the most densely populated areas on the face of the Earth. Meanwhile, Hamas fighters use children as human shields. It was a tragedy waiting to happen and one provoked entirely by Hamas.
“Hamas fighters use children as human shields.”
Could you give me a link to an example, preferably one where there is corroboration from someone independent from the Israelis.
Since the Israelis claim that they fired on the UN School because there were mortars coming from there it appears that the tactic is a pretty much a bust as the Israelis appear happy to kill any Palestinian, child or not.
George, are you incapable of recognising sixty years of ethnic cleansing against the Palestinians? If the aim of Israel is to wipe out Hamas, it’s not doing a very good job – the overwhelming majority of people being wiped out are civilians – women and children.
If your enemy hides in a forest and hides behind trees and you have to fight him there then trees will get damaged and squirrels will get killed.
If your enemy hides in a densely populated urban area and takes cover in homes, shops, schools etc and you have to fight him there then buildings will be damaged and those civilians unable to get out the way will be killed.
Hamas chose to fire their rockets from urban areas with the express goal of killing Israeli civilians, the fact that they were not very good at it is not relevant. If you want to put a stop to these indiscriminate attacks then you have no choice but to get down and dirty amongst the houses.
Israel is surrounded by enemies that want to wipe them off the map. The Israeli leaders believe that showing any kind of weakness will only encourage them. Not only that but one of their enemies who regularly makes “final solution” retoric is close to acquiring the atomic bomb. The tragic events in Gaza are essentially a demonstration of what will happen to that country if Israel is subject to atomic attack.
Given their position they can not afford anyone to have any doubts about how they would respond to an attack on themselves.
And that is the tragedy of what’s happening in Gaza
As Doug says, there is nobody apart from Israel saying that there was mortar fire coming from the schools. The fact that they were UN-run schools in UN refugee camps makes me less than convinced. If the UN are running the schools then where is the UN statement confirming what the Israeli’s say? And the fact that despite Israel banning journalists from Gaza to get first-hand accounts of what’s going on there, the news channels still managed to get hold of the story before Israel gave their excuse for bombing the schools makes me even more suspicious – it’s like they were waiting to see if the story got out and how much of a fuss was going to be made about it before they said anything. What’s the range of a mortar? Far enough to reach out of the refugee camp or were Israeli soldiers in the refugee camp at the time?
If Israel lifted their ban on journalists entering Gaza we might start getting some independent reports instead of first hearing about what they’ve done and then later getting an excuse from Israel after the other side of the story is conveniently there for them to respond to.
“If Israel lifted their ban on journalists entering Gaza we might start getting some independent reports instead of first hearing about what they’ve done and then later getting an excuse from Israel after the other side of the story is conveniently there for them to respond to.”
Great idea that Wonko. Let’s add some dead British and American journalists to the tally of fatalities. Gaza is a battlefield. There are over 10,000 Hamas fighting the Israelis in overcrowded civilian areas, using innocent children as human sheilds. Not the best place to be for anyone.
Over 10,000? That’s quite an achievement for an organisation that supposedly doesn’t have the support of most Palestinians. There’s an easy answer to the safety issue but I won’t say it because that would be stating the bleeding obvious.
Guys, guys, guys, we are falling for their bullshit, neither side is right and both side is wrong, we can stop the Israelis doing what they are doing by stopping giving them bombs, simple!!!!!!!!!!
How do you think we stop Hamas? Now come on, its not rocket science?
Boom tsk!
we stop sending them rockets, is it so difficult to understand?
Both sides are having a war with foreign gear, we stop the gear getting in, the war stops, how difficult is that to see?
“Great idea that Wonko. Let’s add some dead British and American journalists to the tally of fatalities. Gaza is a battlefield. There are over 10,000 Hamas fighting the Israelis in overcrowded civilian areas, using innocent children as human sheilds. Not the best place to be for anyone.”
A journalist can choose to put himself in the line of fire, school children cannot. Whoever you believe to be right or wrong, the fact that children are being targeted by a military force should ring alarm bells. When the IRA were planting bombs the British government didn’t bomb Irish schools. It was getting all sides around a table that solved that one.
The US could stop this, it has a veto which it uses to stop UN resolutions. No progress can be made in the peace process until the US changes its mind.
“Over 10,000? That’s quite an achievement for an organisation that supposedly doesn’t have the support of most Palestinians.”
If there were foreign troops on scottish streets, I’d be shoulder to shhoulder with whoever, throughing bricks at them and fire bombing the collabarators.
Hamas may be a bunch of cocks but they are their cocks, so they will tolerate them, unlike the IDF…..