When you speak out on a subject with a different viewpoint to what is presented by the media, the government or your peers as the “right” opinion to have, it often feels like you’re beating your head against a brick wall. This is the case with Israel – the government sides with Israel, the media tries to come across as impartial but overcompensates in favour of Israel and the majority of my right of centre peers in the blogging world most definitely side with Israel.
That’s why it was a relief to read this article by Avi Shlaim, a former Israel soldier turned professor of international relations at Oxford University which says pretty much what I’ve been saying for the last few years. I won’t reproduce the article because it’s too long but, as much as I dislike driving traffic to the Guardian, I would encourage you to go and read it.
Technorati Tags: Israel, Palestine, Avi Shlaim
Avi Shlaim of Oxford University is one of the so-called “new historians” whose stock in trade is blaming Israel for all the ills of the Middle East in other words he’s a revisionist. Shlaim has argued in the past that Jordan and Israel colluded to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, he’s basically just another left wing stooge with an axe to grind conveniently forgetting that Israel was established under a U.N. mandate, has been invaded by its neighbours 3 times and came under a barrage of anti personel weapons by the very people you defend whilst under a ceasefire.
As for the media, if you think the BBC and the Guardianistas are sympathetic to Israel, think again. The fact that you are in lockstep with the likes of Galloway, Livingstone, the SWP and various other socialists of the left should surely give you pause, after all most right wingers support Israels right to exist without having its population terrorised by its neighbours and “It’s called RIGHT wing for a reason”
“conveniently forgetting that Israel was established under a U.N. mandate”
Well it’s not as straight forward as that. Although the United Nations approved the partition of Palistine in 1947 into a Jewish state and an Arab state, it was Israel who declared itself independent in 1948.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Independence_(Israel)
“most right wingers support Israels right to exist without having its population terrorised by its neighbours”
Yes I agree, in just the same way that Palestinians also have a right to exist without being terrorised by it’s neighbours. The Gaza strip is one of the most densely populated areas in the world. Chucking bombs in will kill innocent people.
This is not a conflict where there are goodies or baddies, the whole thing is a mess and trying to sort out right from wrong in simple black and white terms is impossible. In the end it doesn’t matter who did what in the past because innocent people are dying NOW. If you want to play the blame game do it without guns and bombs.
“It’s called RIGHT wing for a reason”
Does that mean its called political CORRECTNESS for a reason too?
I’ve never liked all this left/right business, it tends to polarise opinion on rather unusual lines… I find it generally unhelpful terminology, to be honest.
With regards Israel, two Israeli Arab parties have been banned from participating in the upcoming elections. So much for “the only democracy in the Middle East”…
I won’t spilt hairs witg Avi Shlaim, as he is a professor we must of course believe him above anyone else – he can’t possibly be wrong on anything -, but the figure I am looking at as to Israeli settlers in Gaza circa 2005 was 8,800, spread amongst 20 settlements. This is some 800 more than Shlaim states. A trifle perhaps, but these 8,800 were evacuated from the Gaza Strip in August 2005.
Since 1980 the Gaza Strip has been seperated from the rest of Israel by two parallel wire fences, 20 ft high. Benjamin Netanyahu commented in 2004: “Of the hundreds of suicide bombings that have taken place in Israel, only one has originated from the Gaza area…Why? Because Gaza is surrounded by a security fence”.
Wonko, I don’t know what media you are looking at, it must be Fox News or Sky. The TV news media that I am watching is very pro-Palestinian. Perhaps Sky Channel 515, Iran’s Press TV, is more to your taste. You might catch George Galloway opining or perhaps sundry other Anti-Zionists, ranting and raving against Israel. Hamas, Hezbollah, you name it – they all get a generous platform on there.
Well, if he underestimated the number of illegal Israeli settlers in Palestine he obviously must be wrong about everything else then. I’m convinced, let’s just turn a blind eye to the child murdering terrorist IDF. It’s only Arabs they’re killing after all, there’s plenty of those around and the Jews did get massacred in the second world war so they need to get it out of their system. What better way to right the wrongs of the 1930’s than to indulge in a bit of fish in barrel shooting in Gaza three generations later?
What is happening in Gaza is a tragedy for those caught up in it.
But lets remember Hamas chose to fight Israel there. If you chose to fight your enemy from the shelter of a city then you are taking the chance that sooner or later your enemy will come looking for you there. And warfare by its very nature is indiscriminate (precision bombing is an ideal rarely achieved) and no matter how careful you are cock ups happen and “innocents” get hurt.
And lets face it Hamas’s aim when you strip away all the guff aimed at the western media is to destroy Israel and they don’t care (except when the camera’s are rolling) what the butcher’s bill will be.
The bottom line is when an israeli kills a Palestinian civilian it’s an accident, when Hamas kill an Israeli civilian it is policy.
Hamas didn’t choose to fight Israel in Gaza, Israel invaded. The Palestinians were there before Israel. Where do you suggest Hamas might go in the most densely population strip of land on the planet where there aren’t any civilians? Or are you suggesting they take their home made rockets and AK47s and mount a land invasion against Israel where they can be slaughtered by American and British tanks, bombs, guns, helicopters and jet fighters?
As has been said here and elsewhere many times, Hamas has said it will sign a long term peace treaty (50 years or more) with Israel on the condition Israel withdraws to its legal borders but Israel won’t entertain the idea of giving up land they’ve been illegally occupying for decades.
Finally, if you could explain how rounding up 110 civilians, herding them into a house and then bombing the house is an accident that would be most appreciated. You might want to send your CV in to Downing Street because you’d be the king of spin doctors for all time.
“As has been said here and elsewhere many times, Hamas has said it will sign a long term peace treaty (50 years or more) with Israel on the condition Israel withdraws to its legal borders but Israel won’t entertain the idea of giving up land they’ve been illegally occupying for decades.”
I wouldn’t beleive a word that Hamas says. The sooner Gaza is rid of this rotten, murderous organisation, the better off they will be.
If there’s any Palestinians left in Gaza…
“Finally, if you could explain how rounding up 110 civilians, herding them into a house and then bombing the house is an accident that would be most appreciated. You might want to send your CV in to Downing Street because you’d be the king of spin doctors for all time. ”
At a guess I’d say some infantry unit comes under fire, calls in an air strike but some grunt under pressure trying to stay alive cocks up the co-ordinates. It happened numerous times in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, etc.
“Or are you suggesting they take their home made rockets and AK47s and mount a land invasion against Israel where they can be slaughtered by American and British tanks, bombs, guns, helicopters and jet fighters?”
What I’m saying is that if they want to fight the Isrealis they should find a way that avoids hiding behind their own countrymen & exposing them to the uncertainties of modern warfare. Most Hamas fighters want to be martyrs anyway, so why can’t they find a way of killing themselves that doesn’t involve exposing their families to danger?
I have every sympathy for the plight of the palestinian nation, but I believe that the tactics of their self appointed champions show a willingness to put at risk the lives of numerous civilians.
It’s not the cause I oppose, the Palestinians have had the shitty end of the stick, I agree with you there, it’s the tactics which deliberately expose the people they are supposed to be defending to danger that i abhore.
“Or are you suggesting they take their home made rockets…”
I watched a programme on Al-Jazeera yesterday where they were with Hamas militants in these “homes” making rockets. In reality, these “home-made rockets” are being manufactured by teams of men across dozens of high-rise buildings to a very high standard using ingredients and parts that are being smuggled in from outside Gaza. You couldn’t make it up. Their fellow Palestinians are suffering, meanwhile Hamas carry on manufacturing and firing their rockets from within residential areas, inviting Isreali retaliation. These people are sick.
The Hamas rockets are not simply “home-made”, Palestinian homes have been turned into glorified bomb factories.