Bit of a dilema – England are playing Israel in the football and the USA in the rugby.
Both matches should be a walkover, the rugby especially so, but which will be the best game?
Our teams both need to be careful when attacking though. A shove in the penalty area could very well see the Israeli’s sending in a couple of attack helicopters and a dodgy tackle on one of the yanks might end up with an invasion.
Of course, even if we lose the rugby there is always consolation in the fact that France lost to Argentina yesterday. Quite comprehensively in fact which makes you wonder whether they are still favourites to win the world cup this time.
I also started this thread (you have to be registered) yesterday on the RFU website about the lack of an English national anthem and the Scots and Welsh having two national anthems played for them – their own and God Save the Queen.
Update:
Problem solved – ITV4 is showing the rugby straight after the football.
Alas, I was unable to watch either match. For shame. However, I caught the Argentina/France game t’other night. I note that both teams really belted their anthem out – the French especially (better anthem, in my opinion). How long before the England teams can sing Jerusalem? Admittedly, it might have been a bit dodgy as a prelude to a game of football against an Israeli team…
Was at the England Israel game, it was a good match.
I was amused by the pro-Palestinian people in a group along Wembley way. Twats, I’ve got no time for them. They are a bunch of raving lefties who just want to moan and complain about something, but campaigning about something worthwhile would be too much work for them. Instead of campaigning for greater equality; the reversal of some draconian legislation; the reversal of Thatcherite and neo-Thatcherite policies, especially those in the health service; for more social housing etc… they campaign to help get a bunch of extremists in power. People who treat women as 2nd class citizens, who make women cover themselves up so as not to tempt men. These people (the campaigners) who claim to be a voice for the left are fools, they are certianlly not my voice. Most of them are latent anti-Semites.
As a proud lefty i feel such anger to be associated with such people. Shame on them. They waste their time and all of ours. They try to help extremists who wish to impose a fundamentalist Islamic theocracy on the Palestinian and Isralei people, they would destroy Israels Jews. And yet many of my comrades on the left, who claim to speak for equality and freedom, strive to help them into power and in the process destroy the only democracy in the middle east. Ignorant prats.
Wow, Calum – as far as I can see, your saying it’s wrong / amusing to protest against the oppression of the Palestinian nation… You impute that people opposed to colonial oppression are latent anti-semites. One might well say that those who opposed apartheid SOuth Africa were latent anti-Europeans.
Great logic. Do your homework, son.
Charlie, why is it that all my comrades on the left support the Palestinians.
I do think it is pathetic. Get over yourselves. This whole thing is more of a self indulgence. The left are now too interested in trying to help fundamentalists, for illogical reactionary reasons, than to focus at home. If you want to make a positive difference to the world you would be campaigning at home for greater income equality, greater trade union power, more redistributive taxation etc… you would be campaigning to help make peace in the middle east, if you want to make the world a better place you would be putting aside your hatred and devoting your energies to uniting people, to emphasing and focusing on the things that unite us as opposed to focusing on those tiny things that divide us.
You wouldn’t be trying to help Islamic fundamentalists into power, people who treat women as second class citizens, who make women cover up so that men aren’t tempted (you what! that is so misogynistic), you are showing solidarity and supporting anti-Semites, holocaust deniers, tyrants who wish to impose their warped view of islam and the world on their people in some perverse theocracy.
Well, your choice. Anyway, how the hell are a bunch of self rightious, illigical foolish lefties, looking for an easy reactionary cause instead of a real true cause to support, going to do? Nothing is the answer.
I can see why many Palestinians feel angry, but the thing is that they have an opportunity to make things work, they have and opportunity to form a democratic government and to strive towards the creation of a 2 state solution. Israel has been fairly accommodating, alas there is still more that they can do. Hamas left the coalition and seized Gaza by force, that isn’t democratic, they chose to destroy the coalition, the Isralies nor Fatah did that, Hamas did it.
There needs to be a 2 state solution. People must understand the practicalities, the real politick dictates that Israel will contonue to exist, and in my opinion, rightly so. The lefts support of Palestine is a reaction, not borne out of any real conviction, other than the wish to oppose, if we opposed the numerous injustices present at home we would do much more. Supporting Palestine isn’t abour freedom, as groups like Hamas wouldn’t create a free society. Look at Gaza, it is a semi-police state, ran by theocrats, by war lords, who hate the Jews and the west with every bone in their body. The oppose everything that we stand for, everything that the left stands for. I am not going to pass judgment and say that they shouldn’t believe what they do, but i do genuinely disagree with almost everything that they believe in. I believe in secular politics, not theocracy. I believe in the rule of law, Hamas evidently don’t. I believe in equal rights for all, Hamas don’t – they treat women as 2nd class citizens and are bigoted. I could go on, but i have to work on my Personal statment for Uni.
Also, Charlie, don’t patronise me and don’t ever call me son. Ok Boy? See it ain’t nice being patronised, so please don’t do it. I don’t patronise you, so don’t patronise me.
All right laddie!
No, seriously. Why support the Palestinians? They are under an illegal occupation. ‘Kay. You don’t seem to get that, and that’s why I might’ve patronised you. Hamas were encouraged by Israel to divide the secular PLO – do some research!
“I can see why many Palestinians feel angry” ha! ha! ha! ha! You liar!
Calum, is that your real name?
Why dont you try and visit Bethlehem. You can’t. It’s been cordoned off by the Israelis…deliberately. Oh and lets not even mention the illegal wall the israelis built…right through people’s farmland. Land they had held for centuries, if not longer.
You’re pathetic mate. If calum is your real name then I bet you wouldnt hesitate to whine about the English “oppressing” people, but when it comes to jews doing it then oh its a different story.
“Hereward the wake” For your info, calum is my name, why would i be making up a name? Tell me what is your name?
I’m sorry Charlie, but i just don’t see it as an occupation. I think that the Isralies have a right to Israel.
I’ll say more later, but i’ve got to go now.
Calum, the Gaza Strip was occupied and Israel withdrew, remember? Illegal settlements continue to be built in the West Bank, making it more and more difficult for there to be the establishment of a Palestinian state. Of course, Israel has a right to self-determination — but that should not entail the state oppression of Palestinians and the refusal to allow refugees to return home.
Don’t forget defying the will of the international community – something that warrants an invasion for most other countries. Israel has defied more UN resolutions than any other nation on earth.
Israel has only defied so many UN resolutions because it feels that it must necessarily do so in order to preserve her existence.
Indeed, Israel did occupy the Gaza strip of a long time, but they have withdrawn. However, the Israeli occupation in 1967 was following the 6 day war, after which they also occupied much of the Golan heights and the Sini Peninsula. This was all done following an unprovoked invasion by Israel’s Arab neighbors. The occupation was part of the peace, much in the same way that any land occupation or annexation occurs after many wars.
The Israeli’s withdrew when they felt more secure, after aggressors such as Egypt recognised their sovereignty, when they felt secure. The Israeli occupation was simply because they had been invaded. They have now withdrawn, i fail to see your problem. There are still some settlements, but they are decreasing.
Equally, many Palestinian refugees are being allowed home, not enough and not quick enough i would admit, however, the are being let home. Those not home are being provided for by the Israeli government.
What a crock of uneducated shit!
To this day Israel is defying resolutions. Does Israel – with its military might and the backing of the worlds most dangerous terrorist regime (America) – really feel its existence is threatened? Of course not, they just have a complete lack of regard for Palestinian (and any Arab) life.
That’s only one part of Palestine.
Oh how I laughed when I read this. How’s this for provocation? The League of Nations gave most of Palestine to a group of Jews to create a Jewish state whose claim to the land was a single line attributed to a fictional character that was written in a story book 2,000 years ago. The land was taken from the people who had lived there for the previous couple of thousand years and, despite promises to invade the new Jewish state if it was created by every single one of its prospective neighbours, they went ahead and created it anyway. Not only were they provoked but the invasion was promised well in advance.
The Israeli’s withdrew when even the Americans started suggesting that maybe they should tone down the crimes against humanity a bit. The Israeli’s have moved out of a couple of settlements, they’re stealing more Palestinian land with their illegal barrier.
How benevolent of the illegal occupying power to allow refugees back to the land their ancestors have owned for the last couple of thousand years where they can look forward to power cuts because the Israeli’s have turned off the juice, gas and oil shortages because the Israeli’s have turned off the supply, starvation because the Israeli’s have blockaded the ports and destroyed farms, illness because the Israeli’s have blown up the hospitals and, of course, a messy death when the Israeli’s indiscriminately blow up tower blocks and markets because someone has thrown a rock at a soldier.
Get into the real world Calum.
“What a crock of uneducated shit!”
I’ll have you know i am fairly well educated.
“The land was taken from the people who had lived there for the previous couple of thousand years”
The Jews were forced out of Judea first by the Romans and later by the Arab Armies in the middle ages, then by the Crusaders. The Jews have had a history in which their counrty has been stolen from them by one group after another. They have a right to Israiel. Not only did they live there well before the Arabs, with it being Jewis land before Islam even existed, but they also had their land stolen by the Romans, then the Arabs, then the Crusaders and finally by the Ottomans and the British.
Get into the real world Stuart. The Palestenian parties are islamic fundamentalists. Suicide bombers, Hamas send young men (almost children) and women into packed ISraeli resturantes to blow themslves up, to marty them selves in the name of Allah. That is quite frankly mad, and at odds with everyting i believe, at odds with our common values, the things which bind our society together.
More Israli civilians have been killed than palestinan civilians.
Israel is subject to daily rocket attacks form Palestine and Syria et al. Israel show considerable restraint in my opinin not to launch serious military opperations following every attack. Israel is thus under almost daily sege.
http://london.mfa.gov.il/mfm/Web/Main/pic.asp?pic=122513.jpg
the impact of a single rocket on an israli home.
”
PM Ehud Olmert (Sept 3): “Rocket barrages have once again been launched on Sderot. They threatened the wellbeing of kindergarten children in this rocket-battered town, which has been exposed to the terror groups’ brutality for over five years. We will not put up with this attack. The IDF has been instructed to destroy all launchers and target anyone involved in the attacks. We will hit all those in the chain of command who harbor terrorists and act against the State of Israel.”
On September 5, IDF forces seized eleven Kassam rockets ready for launch in a civilian industrial zone near Beit Hanoun.
Palestinian terrorists in the Gaza Strip continue to fire Kassam rockets and mortar shells at Sderot and the western Negev. Among the attacks of the past month:
• A Kassam rocket fired from Gaza landed near a high school in Sderot Thursday afternoon (6 September). A house was slightly damaged in the attack. Another rocket landed in a field outside town.
• IDF soldiers evacuated babies from a day care center in Sderot on Monday (3 September) after a Kassam rocket fired by Palestinian terrorists in the Gaza Strip exploded in its courtyard. The rocket was one of seven fired from the Gaza Strip into the western Negev on Monday, as children started their second day of the new school year. Twelve children suffered from shock and were evacuated to Ashkelon for treatment. The Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the rocket attacks, calling them “a gift for the opening of the school year.”
• A Kassam rocket launched from the northern Gaza Strip landed directly on the bedroom of a house in Sderot (28 August). The residents had heard the alarm and entered their secure room before the rocket struck. A passerby was moderately wounded in the eye by shrapnel, and several were treated for shock.
• A Kassam rocket fired from northern Gaza towards Israel hit a Sderot vehicle (25 August), destroying it completely.
• Eight Kassam rockets landed in Sderot and the Negev area (23 August). One hit the Timsit family home in Sderot. Family members, who heard the Color Red alarm, were in the secure room when the rocket smashed through the living room’s ceiling, and were not harmed. Two women were treated for anxiety. The Al-Quds Brigades, the Islamic Jihad’s military wing, claimed responsibility.
• Palestinian terror groups launched a Kassam rocket from northern Gaza (21 August), which landed in a factory near the town of Sderot. No injuries were reported but damage was caused to the factory.
• Palestinians in north Gaza fired two Kassams toward Israel (21 August). One rocket struck a vacant Na’amat daycare center in the western Negev city of Sderot, causing slight damage to the building. A woman living nearby suffered from shock as a result of the attack. The daycare center was empty during the August summer holiday. The second Kassam landed near a gas station outside the city.
• Two Kassam rockets landed near a western Negev kibbutz (19 August). There were no reports of injuries. The Islamic Jihad’s military wing, the al-Quds Brigades, claimed responsibility. Three mortar shells were later fired from the northern Strip, landing in an open area near Kibbutz Kissufim. Earlier Sunday, two Kassam rockets landed in open areas in the Eshkol Regional Council in the southern western Negev.
• Palestinians gunmen (17 August) fired three Kassam rockets and 12 mortar shells from the northern Gaza Strip toward southern Israel. The al-Quds Brigades, the Islamic Jihad’s military wing, claimed responsibility for the rocket fire. One rocket landed near Sderot. Another rocket hit a kibbutz south of Asheklon. A third rocket launched several minutes later landed near a community in the Sha’ar Hanegev Regional Council.
* * * *
Since the Hamas took over the Gaza Strip in mid-June 2007, 155 missiles have been fired at Israeli cities.
From Israel’s disengagement from the Gaza Strip in mid-August 2005 until the Hamas takeover of the Gaza Strip 1,826 missiles were fired into Israeli territory from Gaza.
15 August – 31 December 2005: 270
1 January – 31 December 2006: 1020
1 January – 14 June 2007: 536
Rocket fire from the Gaza Strip continues as the preferred modus operandi of the Palestinian terrorist organizations. Most of the rockets are locally manufactured and have an approximate maximum range of 9 kilometers (6 miles), although some have a range of 12.5 kilometers (7 ¾ miles). In addition, also launched were a number of standard 122 mm rockets with a range of 20.4 kilometers (12 2/3 miles) which had been smuggled into the Gaza Strip.
Since the disengagement there has been a sharp increase in the number of rockets launched at the western Negev. (Until the disengagement, massive rocket fire was aimed at the Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip.) The preferred targets during 2006 were the city of Sderot and civilians living in settlements in the western Negev, although attempts were made to launch rockets as far away as Ashkelon.
In 2006, 861 rockets were fired at population centers in the western Negev, as compared with 222 in 2005 and 268 in 2004 (not including rockets fired at Israeli settlements inside the Gaza Strip).
In May 2007, Palestinians launched some 300 Kassam rockets from Gaza at Sderot and the western Negev. Hamas openly claimed responsibility for the attack.”
http://london.mfa.gov.il/mfm/web/main/missionhome.asp?MissionID=34&
http://london.mfa.gov.il/mfm/web/main/document.asp?SubjectID=30038&MissionID=34&LanguageID=0&StatusID=0&DocumentID=-1
Please tell me where you read that, was it a spoof website or the Israeli government?
So, on the basis of a 2,000 year old claim the Israeli’s are entitled to evict the Palestinians from their homes and occupy their country? Please explain to me why the native americans aren’t entitled to evict Americans from their homes in the US and the aborigines aren’t entitled to evict Australians from their homes in Australia if this is the case. Their claims are more recent and aren’t based on a work of fiction.